Turn based card game with hints of inner critiquing

Summary:

Game designing collaboration #2 Anyone is welcome to help out!

Turn based card game with hints of inner critiquing

notrightmusic 25 May 2018 05:34

I’ve been thinking about a card game for a while. I’m not exactly versed in these kinds of games. I know all the basic casual card games: poker, rummy, solitaire, ect. I’ve lightly played deeper ones like Hearthstone. I consider many JRPG video games to have similar card mechanics. With the use of random rules that players have a certain amount of control over. The interest is in the mechanics of the individual cards and how they’re used.

Brainstorming mess here:

CARDS:
((More ideas for cards please))
-Deck #1: Starter Cards. This card is looked at before playing. It instructs the players how to start.
loop / rhythmic / ambient / free (anything) /

-Deck #2: Personal Cards (actions for the player) This is the main deck. The cards that will be played the most. One card can be picked during a player’s turn. Then follow the instructions.
variation / big change / stop playing / Big Explosion (everyone makes a big noise and stop playing. Continue to the next player) / cancel (save for when you pick a card you wish not to use (cannot be used with HIT cards!) /

-Deck #3: Conduction Cards. One of these cards can be picked instead of a Personal Card. Each card has one idea that is to be conducted to a selected player.
dynamics / copy / different / solo / duo / tempo / stop / change /

-Deck #4: Special Cards. These cards control who will win the game. They are shuffled into the Personal Card Deck.
*HIT! Card - Remove the next card in your deck. Continue playing as before. You now have one less card in your deck bringing you closer to losing the game!
*Bypass Card - point to the player you think is playing best. He will then turn his “Active Bypass” card over (different than the Bypass Card). The next time he gets a HIT card he can bypass it. Then turn the Active Bypass card off again by turning it back facedown. This saves you from that extra step towards losing. But, you must impress people somehow with your playing to earn it.

BEFORE THE GAME:
Each deck is shuffled.
Every player takes:
1 card from the Starter Deck. This can be looked at right away.
1 Active Bypass Card.
8 cards from the Personal Card Deck. (don’t look)
3 cards from the Conduction Deck. (don’t look) ((This deck could be removed from the game - what do you think?))
4 Hit Cards and 3 Bypass Cards get shuffled into the Personal Card Deck.
((Still deciding on the appropriate number of cards))

GAMEPLAY:
In brightly lit room players form a (semi-)circle.
A first player is chosen. This player looks at his Starter Card and begins playing according to the instructions given.
The player to the right will do the same using his Starter Card. He can start whenever he wants, as long as the player to the right of him already finished his turn.
The process continues with all players until we come back to the first player. After everyone's Starter Card has been used the players now have 3 options:
1. Play a Personal Card
2. Play a Conduction Card
3. Take a solo (one chance per round)
((I might change it to only option #1 - what do you think?))

Raise your hand for a second or two to indicate when your turn is finished.

GAME END:
How to win. When a player is out of cards he stops playing. The last player standing wins. Naturally, end the round.

Any changes, ideas, anything welcome.

Last edited on 25 May 2018 10:45 by notrightmusic Show more

Re: Turn based card game with hints of inner critiquing

odolany 25 May 2018 21:27

Hints of inner critiquing? Well… let's turn to general design choices:
Is it supposed to be a random game? (music version of War?)
Random games work well for children or for money ;p but you refer to card games of skill at first, so let me assume that it should be involved. Then we aim for making it only right amount of random, and certainly give more chances of winning to better players.

Usually better players are those that make better decisions. Decision space so far is very narrow and I don't see how one decision in that frame could "better" the other apart from being more lucky. Decision affect mostly, if not only musical output and they also interact with each other only at this level.
Detail: I spot a trap in "Show best player" action - putting players in such inner conflict is like being mean to them. Trying to win and trying to improve the music should go hand in hand, and here game may bias player's judgement or make them suffer if they feel they have to show a player that makes them lose a game.

From all inspiration you mention, what I would inspect more as very interesting are Deck-building (Hearthstone-like) music games. There you have for sure heavy, meaningful decisions at the deck-building stage and after that you can put to testing a phase when music just plays out by itself with minor decisions made (both phases probably shouldn't be long) - this would be a bit of both worlds, game+"aleatoric music generation system".

Check out "drafting" if you don't know this mechanic from games you played. Would you like to go this route? ;) if not, I'll make another thread right aside ;) forking ftw. Although usually such games are tough to make, as potential interactions between cards are many but here interactions are still to come, we can be quite slow with them. Easy straightforward method to provide interaction would be to make cards (apart from "starters") with a condition, like "Take a solo / if you have at least 2 starter cards", "Play only very long notes / if there is even amount of red cards in the game" (red? yes there could be colors ;) ) and so on…

I'm also a sucker for prop reuse - it's always fun to see same element work so different in a different game. (And I always bring a backpack to games meeting - if that was lighter my spine would be grateful). Does your idea have a place for cards from "Stay in character"? They could "trigger" some special conditions on Deckbuilding cards on that fork.

There is so much possible here, but I would argue that the best developing strategy is to aim first for a minimal card set that works great as a game. Then you have your basic game flow. After that you can add more and more of anything, build up possible interactions that allow to play many, many games over many years. ;)

Re: Turn based card game with hints of inner critiquing

notrightmusic 26 May 2018 06:54

Lots of nice ideas and things to consider in your post.

Hints of inner critiquing?

The Bypass Card idea. These cards are valuable because they can save you from deleting cards from your deck when you draw a Hit Card. The player who draws the Bypass Card can't use it. They must give it to the player they believe is playing best. It's a critique. Inside the group. And an important part of the game. You mentioned strategy with how the player uses his cards, which I think can be added to the game. And you might have a better idea of how to incorporate strategy than me. When I thought of this game I was thinking not so much of strategy or chance, though both could play a part, but rather pushing the players to think about how to play to satisfy the other players. You know, sometimes players will be assholes when playing a game. Purposely playing too loud, or trying to take over, or change the direction of the music to their liking. While that can sometimes be fun, I'd like this game to try to eliminate such behavior. Encourage thoughtfulness and approval. I think that would an interesting main idea. So, to answer your question about if the game is random. As of now, the cards could be random, but they are not the most important part of the game. The most important part is winning approval of the other players to collect those Bypass Cards. What do you think? We can take this in various ways. Add more to the importance of Hit and Bypass cards. Add strategy. I love the idea of card building. If you think we can make it work here. I thought it would complicate things. As I hope to have players mostly thinking about being approved by the other players. I'd rather not distract from that. We could create another game that focuses on card collecting and building. Or, if you know how, add it to this game.
Drafting is extremely useful in certain games. If you think we should consider here, I'd love to hear your ideas about it.

"Take a solo / if you have at least 2 starter cards", "Play only very long notes / if there is even amount of red cards in the game" (red? yes there could be colors ;) ) and so on…

I also like this. I've done similar things before. The biggest problem is keeping the text short and simple enough to be understood and thought about while in the middle of improvising. I believe that time is one the of most precious aspects of playing music. More so then sports even. You can't really put it on hold, or have something like an "overtime." Therefore, when players are given new instructions to read, comprehend, and act on in the heat of improvisation, we as designers must be certain that the communication is as intuitive and easy to follow as possible. With very little text, if any. So, a card could have something like 3 red dots, an equal sign, and text, "long tones." At the most. Unless somehow the player choosing cards is not playing for some time.

I'm also a sucker for prop reuse

I reuse props all the time. For example, the cards in "Game Over," but I don't make an effort to do so. Not against it in any way though. If we find a reason to reuse something we should.
I guess you're talking about the Chance Cards in SiC? Some of those cards might go against the "yearn for approval" style of this game. Then again, if you know how to make it work.
Don't be shy to throw out anything. I don't mind having games twist out of their original intention.

Re: Turn based card game with hints of inner critiquing

odolany 26 May 2018 09:53

Thx for clarification, in the meantime it occured to me that this actually might be your central interaction idea.
So I withdraw the "Detail" note, because when a game is "about" aproval, making this aproval work against a desire to win is in itself interesting.

With that in mind, general design choice: how would you like to treat participants that don't know music. Do you think it could be an inclusive game?

And now, I wonder how well cards complement the central idea. They provide for musical diversity and are an alright token of appreciation ("act of giving"). Is there anything more that suits? I can't see. Drafting isn't a fit imo, better to keep it simple.

About timing, turn-based games should do fine regardless of strategy/social aspects. For both (this aproval and the second drafting) games default flow for start might be: finish your part when it's your turn, then do everything the game requires and join back to the music it the appropriate way. Music should be ok with that.

Re: Turn based card game with hints of inner critiquing

notrightmusic 26 May 2018 16:34

how would you like to treat participants that don't know music. Do you think it could be an inclusive game?

Good question. First, it's still possible to win this game even without receiving any Bypass cards, albeit, the chances are lowered. It always comes down to subjective judgment. For example, personally, I would reward someone who I think is being the most creative in the game. Or perhaps making me laugh. Both things have nothing to do with musicality. But, I think we should be aware of this while creating Personal cards. To stay away from using uncommon musical terms and such. We could also create an "advanced" Personal deck for musicians if we wanted to.

I wonder how well cards complement the central idea.

The central idea of approval is connected to the cards. As is how to win the game. The cards provide challenges that the players must keep up with while trying to play their best. The essential Special cards are mixed and hidden into the Personal cards. So, the players are unaware of when they might show up. These cards are the players' lifelines. Once they run out they are finished.

Last edited on 26 May 2018 16:52 by notrightmusic Show more