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Re: New series of meetings

odolany 04 Jan 2023 17:56
in discussion Music games / Playing » New series of meetings

Sorry about that!

It should have been linked to this text: Musical Dixit ;)

The game is quite good and popular: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/39856/dixit and generally the key component are nice drawings in abundance. The mod for music may be just straightforward ("do the same as rules, but without any words"), or a variant described above under the link on the wiki subsite.

It works surprisingly well in so many context I tried it so far: like with gamers at a convent, professional improvisers at a conference, or elderly non-musicians at the community meeting. Getting back to it pretty often and will use it further for sure. :)

Re: New series of meetings

Rrrrrose Azerty 04 Jan 2023 10:53
in discussion Music games / Playing » New series of meetings

Hi ! Can you be more specific about what is Dixit ? I'd love to know what it is !

Re: Introduce yourself in this thread.

Rrrrrose Azerty 04 Jan 2023 10:50
in discussion Games for Music Wiki / Introduce Yourself! » Introduce yourself in this thread.

Hi there !
I wish I found this website sooner ! I'm Rose (she/they), I'm a french free music composer (as putting my music under Creative Commons 0 license) and a music game designer (and a game designer with Bitsy tools). I use to do some workshop where I play with people with instructions to create musical moments inspired by Fluxus and John Cage. With those workshops, I found myself compiling those instructions into games, the first one was :

-The AWESOME MUSIC BOARD GAME, which is a Goose Game like music game. I had the opportunity to play it just once with improvisation beginner and it was a weird experience. I discovered that this game was pretty hard to play while playing an instrument, listening to your partners and so on… I think this is not a great music party game, but I think it can be great tool to produce music to be played for a public that will listen to the cacophonous sound produced by the players. All the creative process has been archived on my blog here : [https://rrrrroseazerty.neocities.org/posts/2021-12-29-boardgame-EN

With my workshops comrades giving me feedback that the game was too hard to play for beginner or too hard to feel like we are participating in a collective, I tried an other game called :

-MUSIC BRAVO, is a card game to practice collectively improvised and experimental music, for beginner and confirmed musicians with improvisations. The game is heavily inspired by Oblique Strategies by Brian Eno and the conceptual works of Fluxus artists and their friends.
The game contains 75 cards (without the rules) divided in 3 groups : Action cards (individual in red, collective in blue), Omen cards (in yellow) and number cards. The principle is simple. You need to gather players around a table with music instruments (you know how to play or not), paper and pencils, a timer. You need to divide the card game in three piles with one pile with individual and collective Action cards, one pile with Omen cards and one pile with number cards. You draw one action card for everyone, one omen card which will be a philosophical card to think about while you play, you draw three number cards which will be the time of the performance, and when everyone is ready, you perform an improvisation.
The game is actually still in beta phase, you can find everything about it here : https://rrrrroseazerty.neocities.org/posts/2021-12-29-boardgame-EN
I'm still working on a practical format for it to be printed at home, usable for colorblind people, with card you can edit yourself…

I think I knew this website by a musician I met at the ZCLAM Festival 2022 near Paris, then I saw you were following me on Twitter so I decided to see more about the website and found that forum ! I see it's not pretty active but if someone wants to talk about making table music game design, I'd love to talk about it ! I don't know a lot of table music game designer and love to meet more =)

Have a good day,
Rose

Re: New series of meetings

odolany 22 Nov 2022 19:58
in discussion Music games / Playing » New series of meetings

This time it was Danish Clapping, Dixit again, and Phrase Dealer. And for this group, actually only Dixit worked well.

Actually so far, the overall character of the attending group is very different each time, hard to prepare the program. Practically every time it was "scrap the plan and improvise" mode.

New series of meetings

odolany 30 Oct 2022 21:44
in discussion Music games / Playing » New series of meetings

I'm running music game meetings in a new place, a community center.

Two meetings so far, had an occasion to play not only a selection of ever-greens from the library, but also a few published games.
There was Dixit (kind of an ever-green), but also some stuff I haven't used on a meeting before.

• Jazz: The Singing Card Game,
• Tempo,
• A Game About Wee Whimsical Creatures and Trying to Recognize Them after Someone Makes Noises,
• Tonic.

So far, so good. ;)

Backend tricks

odolany 14 Feb 2022 22:20
in discussion Games for Music Wiki / Suggestions » Backend tricks

Random scores (The ones that take cues from general content)

New version with bubbles and arrows is new:
http://musicgames.wikidot.com/app:bubbles

Also, now all random scores will allow to select by it's source or an attached tag.
For example this is the address: http://musicgames.wikidot.com/score/parent/game:mutual-prescriptions
to make the score use only cues from CBN's "Mutual Prescriptions"

The tag needs to be attached to the cue itself, so the options are for now limited — although any subset might be selected in the future if tagging will be done properly. To have some order, we'll have a previx "_cue:" for each such tag.

For example see: http://musicgames.wikidot.com/score/tags/_cue:short
which shows only these cues that will fit into small fields of the http://musicgames.wikidot.com/app:goose

Please write here, if any other shape of a random score or selection of cues would be useful (or fun) for you.

a reply

Szczels 17 Apr 2021 12:25
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » S. Szczelkun, Improvisation Rites

You say "the success of the typical improvisation rite depends on specific skills of their performers, like interpretation ability, social openness, motivation towards creativity"
I suppose I think that all humans have these three 'skills' as part of being a linguistically capable mammal. With some they are repressed but, with leadership and scene setting (eg warm up exercises, getting to know each other etc) then play guided by rites will actually enable such innate skill to flower. And the surprise of the Athens workshops was that it seems to be true across cultural differences and within a short time frame.
Thanks for you thoughtful review!
Best Stefan

Re: still...

odolany 16 Jan 2021 19:53
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » C. Cardew (ed.), Nature Study Notes (full, 1969)

Thanks again! Corrected.
It is not a usual situation, but this content is separated to smaller items so it's easier to reuse them. Intro is here:
http://musicgames.wikidot.com/inc:scratch-intro/edit/true

The need for additional explanation in all such situations is now noted.

still...

Szczels 16 Jan 2021 16:04
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » C. Cardew (ed.), Nature Study Notes (full, 1969)

The error I spotted was in the introductory paragraph above (I should have said)
If I click edit whole page I go to something else…
"'Draft Constitution of a Scratch Orchestra' (Musical Times, June 1969) and is currently in use by the Sratch Orchestra."
You can see the 'Sratch'

not an error ;)

odolany 15 Jan 2021 15:20
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » C. Cardew (ed.), Nature Study Notes (full, 1969)

This subpage works well, but it is set up as a list of separate Rites.
If you click on the rite, you go to it's page
for example: http://musicgames.wikidot.com/sub:scratch-030
and there you may correct the error (and I already corrected a typo at #30).

The subpage for specific rite also serves to display the rite alongside Notes to it.

I added explanation under the edit button here, thanks for pointing to that.

Problem with Improv Rites

odolany 15 Jan 2021 15:09
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » CCQR133

Yes, that's a bit of a problem, apart from adding attribution right away, I wonder how to organize it in general.
There were three rites that were selected some time ago as the most fitting to the whole "music gaming" approach.
They were inserted to the library with strict rules on formatting (all rules have same headers).
After the Nature Study Notes digitalization, there is a double.

error??

Szczels 15 Jan 2021 12:06
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » C. Cardew (ed.), Nature Study Notes (full, 1969)

When I try to edit this page (to make a small typo correction!) Get something that is not this page….
very odd

attribution to author needed

Szczels 15 Jan 2021 09:51
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » CCQR133

This Rite is by Cornelius Cardew (CC)

Re: Ways of Being Together - discussion

BeneJ 07 Dec 2020 21:52
in discussion Music games / Designing » Ways of Being Together - discussion

(FEEDBACK ABOUT SESSION ON MONDAY 5th DEC)

In a paradigm where platforms like YouTube and TikTok encourage users to communicate with strangers using comments and comments on comments; the prospect of interacting with strangers verbally seems like the next inevitable step. You may be blazing a very important and world-changing trail!
In addition to comments already made, I’d like to share more about the experience of being a first-timer in the kind of cyber-social environment which you’ve created. I am in agreement that a round of introductions is inappropriate in this drop-in context - however, I would have benefited from some kind of acknowledgment from the host. Being ignored is like being told you’re not welcome. Given the drop-in format, there is no opportunity for an icebreaker, so reaching out to new users as they arrive would be a constant effort; there is no easy solution to this.

I enjoyed the collaborative annotation drawing although (as I have discussed with Izaak!), I’m sceptical about how well this kind of illustration can be used practically as a graphic score. When the interpretation is so loose, it renders any interpretation rather arbitrary.

I didn’t enjoy the part in which those who were in a kitchen made breakfast. I felt like I was waiting for it to be over. I was tethered to my studio PC, and also it was 4pm in the UK!

I was expecting the session to involve more music and instruments. Free improvisation lends itself extraordinarily well to online jamming, so I was looking forward to making some noise. Unfortunately Zoom isn’t ideal for online jamming because the app assumes only one person is “speaking” at a time. It is designed to mute everyone except “the person speaking”, therefore multiple instruments will find themselves being muted. I can’t suggest any alternative though. I’ve done plenty of online jamming recently using the browser-based conferencing app CleanFeed - but it’s audio-only.

The whole event was a great idea and demonstrably the end-result of a great deal of planning and preparation. I’d like to help make it better!
Regards, BENEDICT

Re: Ways of Being Together - discussion

jennie_g 05 Dec 2020 00:54
in discussion Music games / Designing » Ways of Being Together - discussion

Thanks! Still no luck with the invite link, but you can tap me on Twitter or by email if the access information doesn't work. I think some judgement will always be required from the host, and there has to be a gradual introduction to more engagement from other participants. Just speaking for my intentions though, I don't think team-building is a real objective. But I do see how it could match up as a structure. We'll see how it goes / how it feels tomorrow.

The icebreaker questions are very relevant to the Q&A section! I'm tempted to add that link as an extension, not that we need one, but just out of a sort of greed for options.

I have also added something like breadcrumbs, as you suggested, in the new version of the score.

See you tomorrow, and thanks!
Jennie

Re: Ways of Being Together - discussion

odolany 04 Dec 2020 10:18
in discussion Music games / Designing » Ways of Being Together - discussion

Sorry about the karma, actions taken, but not sure if it's fixed.
But the meeting ID is enough to join from here: https://zoom.us/join

Maybe don't share a description of a new version now: in a way it should be self-explanatory as a process, so testing is better when done blind.

As for structure, it indeed may fall closer to structured process/team-building excercises than board games.
I don't think we have an expert on that, I personally dislike engaging in such stuff although there is something interesting in that too. The experience is even more loose there than in "party games" in game design.
Especially your Q+A part made me think of something like: https://icebreaker.range.co/

See you tomorrow! ;)

Re: Ways of Being Together - discussion

jennie_g 03 Dec 2020 21:24
in discussion Music games / Designing » Ways of Being Together - discussion

Thank you for this! I agree with all the issues you raised. Social skill is a big issue, especially when people are only sharing virtual space, and not physical space. It takes more work to create a shared context.

The solution I want to try first is to have everyone begin in the same room, and then they can choose to start an activity-specific room or join one when they see how it works. But until there are more than a few people who know what is happening, it doesn't make sense to split up. This seems like a necessity since with these kinds of events it's very hard to judge how many people will turn up. I will keep thinking about this and make a version 2 of the slides, maybe with a suggested rotation of activities. Last time there were more activities than active participants, which was challenging.

The polling feature of Zoom can also be used periodically to see what people want to do. I think I will build that in. It is an easier entry to participating than raising hands or speaking up. Ideally people should be able to observe for some time before being prompted to make a decision publicly. And the host can make decisions about the spaces according to what is happening.

I like the idea of splitting up the questions. It's much better to focus that way.

One of the big issues I've created here is how to create a balance between freedom and structure. Too much freedom, people feel confused/lost. That's where it is now, so I guess I can build in more structure and see if it goes too far.

I will work on the second version and share it hopefully before Saturday.

Here is the Zoom info. I can't post the link here (my "karma" is too low) but this should be enough?

Jennie Gottschalk is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: Ways of Being Together
Time: Dec 5, 2020 10:00 AM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Meeting ID: 243 815 1672
Passcode: 964310

Re: Ways of Being Together - discussion

odolany 20 Nov 2020 21:47
in discussion Music games / Designing » Ways of Being Together - discussion

Here from the direct experience with the game. It's quite hard to talk about 'pure problems' independently of some ideas for solutions that jump to the head. ;)

I think I can frame most of it around the single notion of skills.

Expectations from the participant are imo unnecessary high, but here technical Zoom trouble is not a lot — even if I got stuck once. ;)

• It's more tough on social skill right now, and that especially for solo players. It's much better for groups in this case. It is very related to the general theme, but I didn't feel that this difficulty was crucial for the concept.

show a possible solution

Continuing the relation to "choose your own adventure", or maybe text Zork-like games.
I was thinking about basic protocol of navigation. With everything being marked with letters and suitable to write 'commands' in the chat. "go A", "go C", etc. Don't know how technically it works for mobile users though. :(

It would be considered as extendable (you basically might do whatever, just like now) but if you have a closed set of default, very precisely defined options it will be easier to just "try out" some of them even while still staying a bit confused.

• Cognitive load during the process is also quite high, as right now you get a lot of the information about the rooms to have an informed choice of actions (which is generally good) but

show a possible solution

…as much as possible information could be put on slides to be delivered exactly when needed and the actions of participants are then treated as further "discoveries" with consecutive actions "revealed" with next steps.

Although, there is a risk that such a game-goal will overshadow the meaning.
When you're hooked on getting to know the next question in Q&A, you will spend less time on answering a current question (which were quite interesting by themself imo). This could maybe be solved by avoiding large chunks of connected mysteries.

• Especially a lot of investigative intellectual skill is needed when a participant looses any of the context. Like gets to the room when something is already in progress, or drops headphones and doesn't hear part of the instruction (as was in my case).

show a possible solution

Slides could show the location — "breadcrumbs" style for example - which would signal how deep we are and maybe how we got here.
A single group activity could be quite time-limited (it should also be very simple and only in the default form at first) and then the situation resets maybe to something that complies with a basic protocol.

• Coherence. This last point is connected to skill — it's easier to remember a small set of universal rules that apply to everything than treat every case individually. But it might be used also to strengthen the themes. This is hard and solutions above would work a bit here too, but it's not enough yet.

I'm very curious of what direction you have in mind right now.

Re: Ways of Being Together - discussion

BeneJ 20 Nov 2020 13:47
in discussion Music games / Designing » Ways of Being Together - discussion

I look forward to contributing game design ideas too. I will follow this forum closely : )

Re: Ways of Being Together - discussion

jennie_g 17 Nov 2020 00:41
in discussion Music games / Designing » Ways of Being Together - discussion

Hi everyone - thanks for starting this discussion! I'd be very happy for input, and I can also share my thoughts and some necessary changes from the first experience, once the discussion gets going. Mainly I think there was so much freedom built in that it became easy to get lost, either because of technology or because more people would be needed to fill and manage all the spaces. I have some ideas about how to fix it but I am still thinking about the mechanics of it.

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